TOM PUTNAM: I am Tom Putnam, Director of the Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum, and on behalf of David McKean, CEO of the Kennedy Library Foundation, and all of my Library and Foundation colleagues, I thank you for coming and acknowledge the generous underwriters of the Kennedy Library Forum, including lead sponsor, Bank of America, Boston Capital, the Lowell Institute, The Boston Foundation and our media partners, The Boston Globe, WBUR and NECN.
In his introduction to a 1964 re-issue of his brother’s book, A Nation of Immigrants, Robert F. Kennedy wrote, “I know of no cause which President Kennedy championed more warmly than the improvement of our immigration policies. Our attitude toward immigration,” he wrote, “reflects our faith in the American ideal.” Robert Kennedy went on in his own career and campaign for the presidency to boldly give voice to the voiceless with a moral energy unique in American political history.
And now his daughter, Rory, carries on the family legacy in her award-winning films which often stand as testaments to the causes and ideals her father personified. Those films include the Emmy Award-winning, Ghosts of Abu Ghraib; Street Fight, which chronicled the 2002 mayoral race in Newark, New Jersey; and, Pandemic: Facing AIDS, which followed the lives of five different individuals living with the disease in the world, connecting audiences with the heartache and triumph of people living with AIDS.
My wife often chides me for revealing too much about a movie before others have watched it, so heeding her admonition and cognizant of the wonderful program to come and the little time we have together, in a rare act of self-restraint, I will hold my comments about Rory’s newest film, The Fence, except to say that it premiered last month on HBO to wildly positive reviews across the nation.
Following the film, Rory will have a conversation with Jason Beaubien, one of NPR’s premier correspondents, having spent years reporting from Africa and now from his post in Mexico City, where he covers not only Mexico but Central America and the Caribbean. After receiving his new assignment for his first series of NPR stories, he drove the length of the US–Mexico border, making a point to touch his toes in both oceans as he chronicled the economic, social and political changes along this violent frontier.
Rory and Jason, we’re honored to have you here at the Kennedy Library, and thank you both for traveling from California and Mexico City, respectively, to be here with us this evening.
And now for our feature presentation and the Boston premiere of The Fence by Rory Kennedy. [FILM CLIP] [Applause]
JASON BEAUBIEN: Well, it’s good to be here and it’s great to see another wonderful documentary looking at an overlooked issue that’s also a social issue, a political issue and a national issue. As was mentioned in the introduction, I’ve driven that entire area. They were building it when I was there, and I have to say that one thing about it -- which this film gets at, but it’s kind of hard to really express -- is how really impressive this project was. This was a massive, massive construction project. Did you have that feeling when you were out there working on it? Because sometimes when you just drive along it, it just keeps going and going and going.
RORY KENNEDY: Yes. No. I mean it is extraordinary that we’ve invested so many resources into it. And, of course, I think one of the questionable aspects of it -- given all of the ways that we could have used those resources -- is this really the best use of them? And is if effective?
And I think I concluded that it wasn’t probably the best use of them. [Laughter]
But I do just want to take a moment and thank all of you for coming here. It is so nice that so many people came out. And I want to thank Tom so much for hosting us and Amy Macdonald is here and helped coordinate everything, so it is really special for me to be here at the Kennedy Library. And I just want to thank all of you and, of course, you, Jason, for coming. And it’s wonderful to be here.
JASON BEAUBIEN: Just one note on the format. We are going to chat for probably 20 minutes or so and then we will open it up for questions. And we’re going to try to wrap up by 8:00. So that’s going to be the format.
One really interesting question about this is what is it that ultimately caused the fence to be built? And my conclusion is that it was 9/11 -- the migration issues, the drug issues were not going to be enough to push it over. I don't know. Maybe you found talking to the Minute Men that there really did seem to be enough political support there. But in my view, it seemed that it was 9/11 that pushed it over.
RORY KENNEDY: Yes. I mean I think that is my position, too. I think that is where the film comes out as well. From what I understood, this was an idea that really didn’t get any traction for many, many years. It did have its seed with the Minute Men, and they tried to push it forward but it never got any traction until after 9/11 when the immigration debate, as it says, was reframed as a national security issue, despite the fact that no terrorists have come over the border and the link does not really exist. That’s how it was portrayed.
And we saw that done not only by the Minute Men but also by politicians. And then certain cable networks who I won’t mention, but they rhyme with Sox and they begin with an F, you know, really took that mantra all the way. So I think that has a lot to do with it. But the fact that 73% of the Congress voted for this fence … And part of why I thought this project was important was because it touched on so many issues that were important to me: issues around immigration, the drug war, the national security issues, and 9/11.
But also to me it’s about holding our legislators accountable, because it is very hard for me to imagine our legislators who are, you know, very smart, we think, we hope, and sitting in a room saying, “This is a great idea. Let’s build a 700-mile wall on a 2,000 mile border, and that is going to be the solution to our problems, and let’s spend $4 billion dollars doing it.” It’s very hard to imagine that conversation happening or these politicians really feeling like this was in the best interest of the country.
And so then the question is are they doing it for politics or are they doing it to get re-elected? Or are they doing it because they really believe in it? And I think that it’s important for us to hold them accountable for the decisions they make. And, you know, this film is not focusing just on Republicans. It is really taking both parties to account, as well as the President. It’s a whole other conversation that the conditions at that time were that the President and the Bush administration are largely responsible for that kind of fear mongering that happened, that I think led to the conditions that ultimately led to the fence being created. So I don’t think it is just 9/11; it is 9/11 with the Bush administration responding to it.
JASON BEAUBIEN: You don’t get into this really very much in the film, but did you get a sense when you were doing the research on this about the money behind it. Obviously, you talk about the actual money, but the actual lobbying interests of the people? It was primarily private contractors, obviously, that were doing it.
RORY KENNEDY: It was. And I did do research into it. There was no particular conspiracy theory that kind of played itself out. There were a lot of contractors that a lot of us are familiar with now. Boeing actually was the big one. But they were getting financing from both parties and giving financing to both parties and contracts, so it wasn’t like there was one player or one person. It was just the natural kind of back and forth that goes on between these corporations and the lobbying efforts that happened.
But, again, this film touches on so many issues, all of which could be their own, separate documentaries. So I really tried to focus as much as I could, and it required a certain discipline to really always bring the stories in the film back to the fence.
JASON BEAUBIEN: Just to play devil’s advocate, though. Looking at it from a security perspective, looking at this wide open, 2,000-mile border, Mexico doesn’t protect its southern border on Guatemala at all. I mean people can just come across there. Do those people who are advocating that we need to do something different on our southern border have a point?
RORY KENNEDY: Well, I think there are a lot of things that could be done on the border that would be just a more effective use of resources. And the film suggests some of them. I do think that if you really want to increase security on the border, people do that a lot better than fences do. And the point is not that the problems aren’t there and that the problems don’t exist, the point is that the fence isn’t the solution to those problems, in my opinion, and particularly this fence and how it was made. But my personal opinion is there is no fence that would really solve the problems. And that the message the fence sends is so antithetical to what I believe this country stands for that I don’t think it is worth it.
JASON BEAUBIEN: I mean it is really quite amazing, particularly in that area near Tijuana between there and San Diego, at some points it is actually a triple fence, isn’t it?
RORY KENNEDY: Yes.
JASON BEAUBIEN: I think that there are actually three barriers?
RORY KENNEDY: That’s right.
JASON BEAUBIEN: With razor wire and very much looks like a prison.
RORY KENNEDY: That’s true.
JASON BEAUBIEN: It looks like you basically constructed this prison and Mexico is on that other side.
RORY KENNEDY: You know, they will argue in San Diego -- which does have the most fortified part of the fence and we profiled that part of the fence in the film -- they’ll argue that it’s been very effective, that it’s been effective in that area specifically. But then the drug war has moved down to where the fence ends and the immigrants … There’s a much higher number of immigrants coming where the fence ends. So what’s important is to look at the overall numbers of both drugs and immigrants coming through the fence. And that number has actually changed slightly since this film came out, because there were some studies done that show there has been, actually, a decrease in the number of immigrants coming into this country. But they attribute it to the economy plunging, and that there hasn’t been a significantly larger decrease in people coming over the Mexican border than are coming in, in other areas, which suggests that the fence, again, isn’t affecting that number.
JASON BEAUBIEN: That section of the fence is actually quite incredible. There is the place, Smugglers’ Gulf, where they took, I think, about a half-mile wide valley and just completely filled it with dirt in order to make, basically, a road across the top to fill there. And then all the way at the water -- I think they may have done this after you were done shooting -- they actually took what was already a fence and there was a park on the US side, and the people would come and talk to each other through the fence, oftentimes. On Sunday afternoons you would have families of people who were not able to cross back and forth.
RORY KENNEDY: There was actually a priest who would come and give Communion.
JASON BEAUBIEN: Yeah.
RORY KENNEDY: And there is actually a great little film called “something” Ball. It’s like a five minute film of two guys playing volleyball over the fence, and there are all these military helicopters overhead and guards on each side. And they just have this game of volleyball, and
then they both go their separate ways. It’s very sweet.
JASON BEAUBIEN: But they can’t do that anymore because this project basically just went and took that entire park, right next to the ocean on the San Diego side and from where the fence used to be, moved the fence back. And I don't know whether they put triple fencing there or not, but they definitely put a double fence so people can no longer come up to the border at that point as well.
I also thought the point about the migration of animals is really quite amazing. Because there are places where there are gaps in the fence, but there are other places where there aren’t any gaps. Some places you are just driving out in the dessert in this incredibly, spectacular landscape that is just beautiful, and as far as you can see, that rusty structure …
RORY KENNEDY: Ugly.
JASON BEAUBIEN: It is pretty ugly.
RORY KENNEDY: I think we can just call it ugly.
JASON BEAUBIEN: Whatever you think about it, it definitely is ugly. I thought of it as a scar in this incredibly beautiful dessert environment. And to think about what that is doing to migratory patterns. And I’ve heard from people at Homeland Security that there have been some efforts to mitigate that, but from what I saw it didn’t appear that there was really any mitigation going on at all.
RORY KENNEDY: I didn’t witness that. I had actually never been to that part of the United States, on the border, prior to making this film, and I was really struck by the beauty. It is really one of the most pristine parts of the United States, and there is something, just in responding to the visual of it, that was so sad to me -- that we’ve come to a point in our nation’s history that we are putting up fences. And, as I say, it seems so against many of the principles that I grew up believing in and that I felt that our country collectively believed in.
And I think it taps into larger questions of immigration. We’re here at the Kennedy Library, and I often think about our family. They came over from Ireland. It was at a time when there were no limits, really, to the number of immigrants. I think 98% of people who wanted to come into this country were allowed in. And to think that 70 years later my uncle becomes President of the United States, and at that time there was real opposition to the Irish.
I think whatever the largest wave of immigrants there is coming in, there is the largest reaction against them in our nation. In Boston there were all sorts of signs saying, “No Irish need apply.” That’s where we came from, and I think you have this same backlash now against Mexicans and South Americans. I believe firmly that they are the future of our country. Seventy years later my uncle becomes President, and there is so much opportunity, and there is so much wealth in terms of the people who are coming here.
To me, it’s a two-way street. People are coming to this country because we need people in this country, and we want them to come and work in this country. Drugs are coming into this country because we are demanding the drugs and people are using drugs. There’s so much about “them” and “their problem” and “they are taking over our country” and “what are they doing?” I think the dialogue, really, to be more honest needs to be also about what our needs are as a nation, because you so see with the changes of the economy that there is less of a need and, therefore, there are fewer people coming in. And it’s really that we have an economic need.
The scene when you see these Minute Men, they are all militarized and ready for this war. But who they are fighting are really these women and children, who are coming in to make a better life for themselves. That’s the reality on the ground: these people who believe in America, believe in the dream of this country. So I think we also need to be more honest about a dialogue and what that reality is and come up with an immigration policy that reflects that more honestly, rather than feeling we are being viscerally taken over by these immigrants who are destroying our economy.
JASON BEAUBIEN: One thing that I was really struck by when I was working on this piece in 2008, of driving along there, was the disconnect that I felt between Americans on the US side and their reaction to the fence -- that there was very much a sense that this was being pushed on to them from Washington, that this was being stuffed down their throats, and there was a lot of opposition to it along the border.
So the golf course, is that in Brownsville or was that in …
RORY KENNEDY: Brownsville.
JASON BEAUBIEN: Because they also did that in Eagle Pass, which is right across from Piedras Negras. Again, the fence ended up going through a kids’ playground, and it was just amazing.
RORY KENNEDY: I talked to people who had their cattle on the south side of the fence and their house on the north side of the fence. They would have to drive onto the highway to where the fence ended on their property and go around it to get to their cattle. It was so absurd. And, of course, the government paid them nothing to put this horrible fence -- which is, again, they were right on the Rio Grande. I mean it was beautiful. It cut off their view of the Rio Grande; it’s just extraordinary.
The way that I got involved in this project was because a friend of mine, Doug Brinkley, who is a historian I know -- he has spoken here before -- was working as a visiting professor at the University of Texas in Brownsville. And he called me and said, “Do you know what is going on with this fence?” And I said, “Well, I know about the fence. Tell me more of the details.” And he filled me in on how they were proposing to put the fence right through the middle of this campus, so students were going to be required to take their passports to go to classes, to go from one class to the other. [Laughter]
Then I got off the phone and I started doing my own research, and the more I read about it, the more absurd it became. I think that is part of why I think the film has the tone that it does, because whenever I’m approaching a film or a project, I always try to convey what my experience is in learning about it or in making the film. What I found myself saying over and over again as I learned about this fence is, “It’s so absurd. I just can’t believe this. It is so absurd.” So I felt that it was important to convey that absurdity in the tone and approach of the film.
JASON BEAUBIEN: The whole Nogalas scene that you have there with the flooding, it’s amazing. In Nogalas Sonora the water flows from that area into the US, and they have some giant drainage tunnels that allow the water to continue to go into the US so nature is set up that the water comes from Mexico and flows into the US. The border patrol took me down into some of those tunnels. They actually have tear gas, remote control tear gas spray that they can turn on inside these tunnels. It really is kind of amazing the amount of infrastructure that has gotten poured into this park. But also this irony that basically the water wants to come this way, and this one solution that is coming out of Washington again got stuck there and caused these massive floods.
RORY KENNEDY: Well, you know, I think that is the other message that the fence sends. It is really this sense. When you are there, it very much feels like a militarized zone, that we are at war with Mexico, which of course we are not. It is a very friendly neighbor; we don’t have such a fence up in Canada or other parts of the country, so why are we putting a fence on our southern border and what kind of message is that and what does it say about how we feel about South Americans, Mexicans. And I think that also speaks to a whole range of issues.
JASON BEAUBIEN: That is part of what I was seeing in terms of the opposition locally is that along the border -- places like Eagle Pass and Piedras Negras -- those communities are very intertwined and they are quite used to being able to do business on one side, go have breakfast over there. The fence, in addition to tightening border crossings, and border crossings becoming incredibly long on the border, have really started to separate these places that were quite tight as communities. Like El Paso and Juarez at the moment, just to get across the border it usually takes over an hour, and in the past it didn’t take that long. And people’s cattle used to move back and forth.
I also do understand, though, this idea that we can’t just allow there to be absolutely no control on these borders, and it is a tough question of how do you regulate such an open, wide open space. I guess you touched on that a little bit earlier, but I was also struck by that -- that it’s not a simple problem, necessarily, to solve.
RORY KENNEDY: Absolutely. So it shouldn’t be solved with a simple solution. [Laughter] But I was actually struck, too, by … I assumed in making this film and doing this project that people on the border were going to be vocally supportive of the fence, because they are dealing with these issues on the frontline. But what I found is exactly what you are saying: that a lot of the people on the border have very friendly relationships with their neighbors to the south and there is a whole, independent economy that exists down there that is kind of separate from the United States in some ways. And it operates in its own capacity, because it is so intermingling with Mexico and the south. There are families and communities that exist there, and there is a very nice, warm relationship. And so this fence is a real intrusion in the middle of that.
JASON BEAUBIEN: Well, we are going to try to get some questions in as well. So if people have questions, there are a couple of mics. If you could go up to the mics so everyone can hear, and as soon as we have a few people up there, I will start taking questions for the next 20 minutes or so.
QUESTION: Rory, I was wondering, right now with the voices of fear being heard the loudest, how can a documentary such as yours present a voice of reason? And how do you hope to get more people watching it?
RORY KENNEDY: Well, thank you for your question. You know, I believe in documentaries. I’ve been making them for about 15 or 20 years now. And I do think that they can approach an issue more comprehensively and thoughtfully than maybe a two-minute news piece or a news article. I think that they can appeal to people emotionally in a way that is hard to do in any other format, and I think that they deal with issues in a more holistic, comprehensive manner.
I never have the sense that documentaries are going to be the solution to a lot of the social ills or the challenges that we face as a country or as a nation right now, but I do think that they can contribute to the dialogue. And I think that they can help people see things in a way that they haven’t been exposed to before, whether that is an issue in and of itself that they have a hard time getting access to in the mainstream media, the way that it is handled in a documentary might be different.
You know, this is obviously much more of a point-of-view film. I usually don’t narrate my films, and you can imagine why, this voice. But I felt that it was important in this film because I did feel like it was more of a POV approach, and I wanted to be honest with the audience about where I stood on it.
My hope is that the films I’ve made do help contribute. They are one of many efforts that people, hopefully, are making from all different backgrounds and resources and creativity and imagination and politics and law and all sorts of ways that we can affect issues to improve the quality of life that people are facing right now.
JASON BEAUBIEN: Have you gotten much reaction to this yet? I mean it was in Sundance and then it just debuted on HBO?
RORY KENNEDY: Yes. It’s been at a number of festivals and on HBO, and it’s all been very positive so far as I can tell.
JASON BEAUBIEN: Yes. Over on this side.
QUESTION: I wanted to ask about the scene you have with the militia, which I don't know what they are.
RORY KENNEDY: The Minute Men.
QUESTION: The Minute Men who go on their little patrols. It seems as if they start in a very combative place, and then you end it with what seems almost like people on a humanitarian mission. I just wondered if you could talk about what you saw in the experience of them when they are finding these clothes and what they are trying to do and how it is affecting them.
RORY KENNEDY: I didn’t experience it that way -- that they kind of shifted into a humanitarian mission. I think it was more to me that they do start in this kind of militaristic fashion, which is how they approach the issue, and the reality on the ground is that they are dealing with people -- little kids and women and children. I honestly don’t think that they were emotionally impacted or had any kind of “aha” moment in that. I think that is something they come across every single day that they are out there.
The reality of what they are actually facing is people who are coming over to try to improve their lives. And that has not changed despite that experience, which is pretty much every time they go out. That has not changed their agenda or motivation.
They are trying to find people who are coming over, migrants who are coming over, and then they alert the border patrol that they are there, and then they are sent back to the country of origin.
JASON BEAUBIEN: Over here, in the red.
QUESTION: As you mentioned, illegal immigration is a very complex issue. There are winners and there are losers. And America, of course, is a very class divided society, even though we don’t want to talk about it. The winners, obviously, are illegal immigrants who break the immigration laws and break the tax laws and illegal employers who break the immigration laws and break the tax laws to get out of their own obligations. And the losers, of course, are low- wage American workers who are never represented in films like this or in the discussion.
Now, I know for millionaires from Malibu it may be a politically correct cause to take the side of illegal immigrants and to say nothing about many of their friends who are employers who employ these illegal immigrants. But shouldn’t there be more emphasis placed on low wage American workers and tax payers who are losing out in this whole situation?
RORY KENNEDY: Thank you for your question. I understand that you have very strong opinions about this, and I think a lot of people do about immigration issues. As I said, my agenda with this film is really to look at the fence and to look at whether that is an effective use of taxpayers’ money: to spend $4 billion dollars in building a fence to deal with the immigration issue.
I don't know what your opinion is about that, but my opinion is that is not a good use of money. There are a whole range of other issues that this film touches on. What we are really dealing with in this film is a $4 billion dollar fence.
JASON BEAUBIEN: It is interesting, because I mean it is much more than just immigration. To some degree it is about drug smuggling. At the moment the drug war in Mexico has gotten incredibly violent, and there is this question about whether that violence is going to spill over into the US. My view is that that has not really happened at all, and so it is much more about this public policy of, “We’re going to build this fence.”
And I actually think what is quite interesting about this is that it really gets at what is our relationship with Mexico, because the fence is about that. Our relationship with Mexico is incredibly complex, as you were mentioning in terms of the drug war. The drug war is being fueled by the demand for drugs here, and the immigration problems are being fueled by the demand for people for low wage jobs, employers who want to take people in.
RORY KENNEDY: Right. And I think we all, or many people, have varying opinions about how we should deal with the immigration problems in this country. I have my own opinions, which are probably different from yours, but I do think that it is important to address the fence itself and whether that is an appropriate use of tax dollars.
JASON BEAUBIEN: On this side. Yes, you.
QUESTION: Very quickly, I just want to say that I don’t think the undocumented immigrants are taking your jobs. I think that corporations are taking your jobs. [Applause] My name is Patricia Montes and I am from the Central America, and I direct Centro Presentes, a Latino immigration rights organization. Right now we are advocating that the press and politicians not use the word “illegal” to describe undocumented immigrants, because we truly believe that only actions are illegal, not people, so I would like to hear what is your opinion about the use of the word “illegal” to describe human beings.
RORY KENNEDY: I think that’s a good question. I think you are right, that it is not an appropriate term. I think that it is a term that has been used widely over many years, and I think people fall back and I do as well. But I think there are other ways to describe migrants that are coming over to this country who are challenged, and I appreciate your opinion. Thank you.
JASON BEAUBIEN: And I disagree with you, but that is okay. I don’t think we should get trapped into just using this word or just using that word. I feel like it ends up sort of limiting it. I think that ultimately people know that they are crossing a border and that it is illegal to be crossing that border -- people are doing it and they know that it is illegal -- they are facing the reality there. I don’t think that there is anything wrong with pointing out that that is illegal to do.
And I think that if you are going to use that in the context of, you can also refer to them as undocumented; you can also refer to them as migrants. I just hate, as a journalist and a writer, getting trapped into, “I can only use this word or I can use that word.” But that is my opinion.
QUESTION: They are human beings.
JASON BEAUBIEN: They are absolutely human being. But human beings also, at times, break laws. So that’s the question.
RORY KENNEDY: But I guess her point is that you’re defining them as illegal.
JASON BEAUBIEN: In terms of the migration status. So their migration status was illegal. I don’t want to spend too much time debating this because, basically, I’m just trying to say that I don’t think we should get trapped into particular language. I think we should also face up to the fact that people are recognized, that they are breaking a law when they cross the border without documents. They know it. I think those people would tell you, “You know, what” … I hate to end the debate myself because it feels like I’m sort of forcing it, but I’m going to move on to the next question, if that’s okay.
QUESTION: I can end it. I have a question about the story and the fence, the Coyote. Can you tell a little bit more about the background because wasn’t he afraid to be in a film? Because the border patrol must know who he is, but he was just so cavalier, like, “There is not a fence we can’t cross.” Can you tell us more about him?
RORY KENNEDY: Well, he was initially very resistant to talk to us, and then he agreed to talk to us but then he didn’t want to show his identity. And then, over a period of time, he opened up. Then he got kind of excited about what he did and wanted to show it off to us. I think he was very proud of himself, really, frankly, so he shared with us his experiences.
JASON BEAUBIEN: I hate to say, we only have about ten more minutes, so we are going to try to go quickly, but we may not be able to get to everyone.
QUESTION: Hi, my name is Lilly, and I’m a member of the Student Immigrant Movement, which is a group in Boston that has been trying to get Senator Brown to co-sponsor the Dream Act, like Senator Kennedy did. I want to commend you for your film. I’ve live a couple of years at the border in El Paso and Ciudad Juarez and in Nogalas, and I thought it was a wonderful capture of the people and their sentiments. I think the woman before me actually just asked what I was going to ask, which is how you were able to gain the confidence of the migrants and the people that you interviewed. But I also wanted to introduce you to my friend Ada, who is undocumented and who has been in the country since she was three months old.
ADA: Hi, everybody. My name is Ada Fuentes. I’m from Honduras. I came to the US with my mother on a traveler’s visa when I was eight months old. I know people are saying that you do know when you make an illegal act, but I don't know how you would claim a baby would know that it is an illegal act. I definitely don’t think it is correct to call me undocumented, because I don’t feel like I did anything illegal. I just want to let you know that when I came to the US, my parents didn’t tell me that I was undocumented. It wasn’t until the time I was probably 15 or 17 years old when I found out, when I was trying to apply to universities that I could not attend. It was then that the lawyer told me, “You cannot go to college. You can’t do anything pretty much, and I don't know what you are going to do but this is what your life is.”
I went to a guidance counselor, and the guidance counselor told me to drop out of high school and get my GED, maybe go to a technical school, try and become a cosmetologist or something. From then on, I was really angry. I was angry at myself and I was angry at my parents, but most of all I was angry at the system because I went to high school; I did everything I had to do; I had good grades; I had never gotten in trouble; I never got arrested; I had never done anything in my life that would put me or my family in jeopardy.
When I got older, I heard mention the Dream Act. Everybody is like, “I’m going to fight for the Dream Act, the Dream Act can pass so that students like me who are undocumented can get documentation and go to college. You know, I want to go to college. I want to contribute to this country. This country is my home. I’ve been here since I was eight months, and I would love to contribute. I pay taxes. I pay for my work permit every year. And I just want to ask you to support the Dream Act. Thank you so much for your film. I really appreciated coming to watch it. [Applause]
QUESTION: Hi. My name is Lewa. I’m Ada’s friend, and I want to add to what Ada is saying. Senator Kennedy was such an avid supporter of the Dream Act and, unfortunately, we lost him at such a critical time. Senator Brown right now has replaced him and, out of all of the Massachusetts Senators, Senator Brown is the only person that has still yet to co-sign and support the Dream Act.
You have heard Ada’s story. There are so many friends. My friend, Penaka, came here when she was a baby before she could even remember anything. She came here with her family, and now all her family is gone and she is out here alone defending for her life, trying to get a job, trying to go to college and stay here as the only place that she calls home. And so I have these supportive cards along with my friends. We still want to have Senator Brown listen to us. We are not giving up because these students still have fire in them and they will continue to have fire and continue to fight for their own voice, for their own life until we get this Dream Act.
We hope that each and every one of you can sign this after this forum. And thank you again. I want to reiterate, this film was wonderful and brings in so much and such a great message to such a wide array of audience. So thank you. Thank you.
JASON BEAUBIEN: This is an interesting example of just how much the immigration hasn’t been dealt with. This country has been unable to figure out in this time how to deal with this. The fence is part of an issue that, clearly, there are problems with this. You have people who have been in this country their entire lives. It’s an issue that this country needs to face up to and needs to figure out how they are going to deal with it. It is going to be something that politicians are going to have to face up to and figure out a sensible, sane way to deal with it.
We will go over to this side.
QUESTION: Rory Kennedy, thank you very much for this film. I was very surprised about this project. I’m sure a lot of people were. Do you think this could send a message to the politicians that have the power over this project in Washington to change it or have any … because it is not effective.
RORY KENNEDY: Thank you for your question. Again, my hope is that this film will contribute. I don’t think anything will happen if you watch it and then don’t do anything. We have a Web site -- thefencefilm.org -- where you can go and there are organizations that we’ve partnered with who are taking very active initiatives around the fence and some of the issues that it addresses.
And, also, what I say when people ask how can they help, I would encourage them to go to the Web site, but also voting into office people, asking them these questions and holding them accountable. What are they going to vote for? What are their positions and how are they going to pursue these issues is really important. And to have an informed electorate who is really demanding that their politicians stand up for the ideals that are in the greatest interest of our country and our people, I think is a great use of your time and your power as a citizen of the United States.
JASON BEAUBIEN: I’m going to quickly try to get to some more questions. Over here on this side.
QUESTION: My name is Bob Hildrick, and one of the things that I didn’t capture in this excellent film was that this is actually one of -- if not the largest -- industrial zones in North America. I’m referring to the maquiladoras that are along the zone, which requires things like fire engines to often go back and forth several times in the production process across the border. Did the fence in any way have any effect on this huge industrial maquiladoras?
RORY KENNEDY: I don't know if you have any insight into that.
JASON BEAUBIEN: I don’t think so.
RORY KENNEDY: Not that I know of.
JASON BEAUBIEN: Because for the most part the main border crossings have stayed …
RORY KENNEDY: … are the same.
JASON BEAUBIEN: … as they were. And most of that industrial production would have been…
RORY KENNEDY: The highways aren’t affected by it, by the fence per se, and the major industrial lanes.
QUESTION: So our companies like General Motors, they just didn’t play a factor in the construction of the fence as far as fear of their production being interrupted?
RORY KENNEDY: Not that I’m aware of, no.
QUESTION: Thank you
RORY KENNEDY: Thank you.
JASON BEAUBIEN: Over on this side.
QUESTION: Yes. I’m Christian Lewis. I would like to know why they can’t let all the immigrants, especially the Mexican immigrants, come into the United States. Why they can’t allow all the immigrants to come to the country, into the US?
JASON BEAUBIEN: Tell me that one more time.
RORY KENNEDY: Why can’t they let all the immigrants come into the United States?
QUESTION: That’s right. Yes. Legal and illegal?
RORY KENNEDY: Do you want to answer that? [Laughter]
JASON BEAUBIEN: Absolutely. I’ll answer that. I live in Mexico City. I spend a lot of time in Mexico. You know what the minimum wage is in Mexico? It’s 54 pesos a day, which is less than $5 dollars a day. There are 110, 120 million people in Mexico, and it’s just not practical to say, “There’s no border and people can come,” because people would come from Mexico. And that other gentleman that was concerned about jobs disappearing? Mexicans want to improve their lives. They want a better job. They want to be able to move out of neighborhoods where there is no running water or even from neighborhoods where there are basic services. They want to improve their lives, send their kids to college.
And if there was no border, no sort of immigration system, a large number of them would be working in the United States instead of working … particularly the maquiladoras. They pay double the minimum wage. So they pay 108 pesos a day. So it is just under $10 dollars or roughly around $10 dollars a day at the maquilas. And that is right on the border. A huge number of them would just come right across and work at Burger King or whatever for $6, $7 dollars an hour. So that’s my view on it.
It’s just completely impractical at this point in time, unless you are going to do some sort of European Union type of system where the US funded social development and tried to build up the economy in Mexico or wherever else ahead of time like they did in the European Union.
QUESTION: One more question. Why is Mexico so poor and the United States and Canada so rich?
JASON BEAUBIEN: I ask myself that almost every day. Why is Mexico so poor? Mexico has got incredible resources. It’s got oil. It’s got a history that is very similar to ours if you go way back. It’s a very interesting question, and there have been theses written on it. My take on it is basically that its structure -- its economic structure -- never got to the point where the United States’ economic structure did in terms of efficiencies, in terms of they have a huge problem with monopolies. The rich are incredibly rich. Corruption remains incredibly entrenched. They have a problem with having come from a colonial Spanish system, which is incredibly bureaucratic. There are different reasons, but it is incredibly complex in terms of why that has happened.
I’m going to go over to this side because we have only got a few minutes left. Yes.
QUESTION: Thank you, Ms. Kennedy, thank you for your film and your diligence. I appreciate you being able to draw out so many different people and to bring to the public some of those issues. My friends in the Lorea(?) Grande(?) Valley tell me we did not cross the border. The border crossed us. [Applause] And Ada spoke about coming here as a young person. I, obviously, have an accent, and as a young person growing up in Trinidad and Tobago, I was very moved when I was a teenager when -- and I feel I get emotional -- when your uncle stood in Berlin and said, “Ich bin ein Berliner.”
And then in 1998 when I was with the National Council of Churches and the Racial Justice Working Group we went to Juarez and they were just starting to build the fence. And so many people had put up “Bien Veneto … “Welcome to the new Berlin Wall.” And in the film I was glad to see that the veteran who fought in Vietnam brought that point up.
I came here on scholarship. I thought I was going to be a doctor. God had other plans. My name is Sr. Mary Therese Brown. I’m a Sister of Charity of Nazareth. I’m an organizer. I worked with the farm workers for many years, over 15 years. Seven of them were on the Texas– Mexico border. You know, when you speak about Brownsville, my Bishop at the time, Bishop John Jay Fitzpatrick -- good Irishman -- was in court with us and different places. But I remember him saying that we should move the Statue of Liberty from where it is in New York and put it in the Rio Grande.
Six weeks ago I was in Ottawa, and when I was coming out of the Ottawa airport, as many of you may be aware that I can do my checking through. I am now a US citizen, and I was really moved to see that at the Ottawa airport they had all the US immigration officials and there was a Statue of Liberty along with the American flag.
So we keep talking about the border to the south, and I’m hoping that maybe you can do a follow up and help to unpack some of the intricacies that you’ve just touched on with this fence. I think as a people we need to start looking at another treaty, one of the treaties that we never kept, the Treaty of Hidalgo 1848, at which point we said that we would be a bilingual, bicultural nation.
We need to look at all of that in the Southwest. I think that that needs to come into the dialogue.
JASON BEAUBIEN: Sister, we have to wrap up.
QUESTION: And the last thing, both of you, you touched on the complexity. And I’m hoping that, you know, we need to unpack … you spoke about you and what’s happening, the crossing of borders. Why is it that we can’t do the same thing here? You know, when the people come, the farm workers who I work with, when we want the people’s arms, we have them. But somehow goods can pass but not people. So I think these are some of the things. I appreciate you starting this dialogue. And I hope that you do a follow up, as I said, looking at the Treaty of Hidalgo, at some of the underlying things. Thank you.
RORY KENNEDY: Thank you.
JASON BEAUBIEN: We are basically out of time. But I’m going to go to you if we can keep the question quick, and I’m afraid this is going to be the last question because we are out of time.
QUESTION: I just want to broaden the discussion. I’m a scientist, and in the 1980s the largest number of undocumented individuals were scientists from places like Germany and France who had overstayed their visas. I never saw any immigration police at the Harvard Medical School [Applause].
JASON BEAUBIEN: Thank you for that. And I would really like to thank Rory for this film and for being here tonight. It’s been wonderful.
RORY KENNEDY: Thank you Jason. Thank you all. Thank you for coming. [Applause]
THE END